Let's be reasonable with one another, shall we?

Wednesday, December 07, 2005

Batman Quote

Katie Holmes plays Rachel in Batman Begins. At one point in the movie Rachel says to Bruce Wayne (Batman), (not knowing who he is underneath, but only seeing what he is doing in a night life scene),

"It's not who you are underneath ...
it's what you do that defines you."

Is there any biblical truth in that quote?

Katie Holmes.
... yes, Toledo's own Katie Holmes. I grew up 3 doors down from her cousins. She went to the same Catholic grade school and high school I did. Our local news anchors reported on her pre-marital pregnancy (actor Tom Cruise). They acted like it was a great happening ... a cause for celebration! What a world.

the END


  • Can you separate the two? What do they mean by underneath?

    God Bless

    By Blogger Dyspraxic Fundamentalist, at 12/07/2005 4:04 PM  

  • Would this qualify....

    Num 25:6 "Behold, one of the children of Yisra'el came and brought to his brothers a Midyanite woman in the sight of Moshe, and in the sight of all the congregation of the children of Yisra'el, while they were weeping at the door of the tent of meeting.
    Num 25:7 When Pinechas, the son of El`azar, the son of Aharon the Kohen, saw it, he rose up from the midst of the congregation, and took a spear in his hand;
    Num 25:8 and he went after the man of Yisra'el into the pavilion, and thrust both of them through, the man of Yisra'el, and the woman through her body. So the plague was stayed from the children of Yisra'el.
    Num 25:9 Those who died by the plague were twenty-four thousand.
    Num 25:10 The LORD spoke to Moshe, saying,
    Num 25:11 Pinechas, the son of El`azar, the son of Aharon the Kohen, has turned my wrath away from the children of Yisra'el, in that he was jealous with my jealousy among them, so that I didn't consume the children of Yisra'el in my jealousy.
    Num 25:12 Therefore say, Behold, I give to him my covenant of shalom:
    Num 25:13 and it shall be to him, and to his seed after him, the covenant of an everlasting priesthood; because he was jealous for his God, and made atonement for the children of Yisra'el."

    YHVH responded to what was done. There isn't any mention of what was inside of Pinechas. In fact, his theology isn't even mentioned.


    By Blogger Ephraim, at 12/07/2005 5:44 PM  

  • Ephraim,
    I'm not sure what you mean.

    By Blogger Rose~, at 12/07/2005 5:57 PM  

  • I would suspect that this quote has great meaning in 'Christian Science Cults', but it is nonsensical biblically speaking.
    Jesus said that "..out of the mouth the heart speaks." What's underneath is revealed by our actions.
    I didn't mean to be 'snappy' on the other comment. Sorry.
    I also did not want to be sucked into the conversation, but it happened. I'm offically out.

    By Blogger Jeremy Weaver, at 12/07/2005 6:37 PM  

  • Who better than the masked avenger to not comment on Batman.

    I would say only the Shadow knows, but a tree is know by its fruit as Jesus said. However "what we do reveals Who is inside us". The Holy Spirit. Amen?

    By Blogger Bhedr, at 12/07/2005 9:25 PM  

  • I personaly liked the question, "Why do we fall?"

    By Blogger Bhedr, at 12/07/2005 9:26 PM  

  • BTW, Proverbs 27:19

    By Blogger Bhedr, at 12/07/2005 9:28 PM  

  • Bhedr,
    You should read the post below. Many of your beautiful sayings are included there. ;~)

    What do you mean:
    I personaly liked the question, "Why do we fall?"
    was that a question in the movie that I don't remember?

    By Blogger Rose~, at 12/07/2005 9:45 PM  

  • rose: You generate some of the most astonishing strings. It is your special genius.

    Actually the quote is the anthesis of Biblical teaching (I think).

    By Blogger Joe, at 12/07/2005 9:53 PM  

  • What are you going to movies for!?!

    Oh, if it was a video that's probably OK. ;)

    By Blogger J. Wendell, at 12/07/2005 9:55 PM  

  • Why do we fall?
    So we can pick ourselves up.-Batman's Dad

    John and Rose,
    Will Emmanuel be having services Christmas day? My family and I are going to my sister-in-law's for Christmas, and would like to attend.
    If not, is there another church in the area that yopu would recommend?

    By Blogger Jeremy Weaver, at 12/07/2005 10:47 PM  

  • There are numerous examples in the scripture which could be used to support both sides. What I find is that the actions of those whose head and heart agree also agree in word and deed while those with a proud heart decieve themselves and their behavior is not consistant with their belief.

    By Blogger Kc, at 12/08/2005 1:07 AM  

  • Matthew,
    The scene is like this: Bruce Wayne, who is secretly Batman, a crime fighter, (he is leading a double life), is trying to throw every one off by acting like a rich party guy who cares about nothing but fun. He is seen by Rachel, (an old friend of his) out at a bar with two women ... "living it up." Rachel and Bruce come face to face and she seems dissapointed at his lecherous behavior. He tells her something like this: "I am not really like this deep down." (meaning: this party thing is all an act).

    She then says:

    "It's not who you are underneath ...
    it's what you do that defines you."

    to try and tell him that his actions are defining him (but she doesn't know about him being Batman and all of his heroic actions).

    Does it make any more sense now?

    How profound! I like that, I will chew on that today.

    By Blogger Rose~, at 12/08/2005 10:46 AM  

  • Could be good ol' existentialism.

    Nothing really matters. DO something to define yourself before you die.

    Is not God more interested in who we are before He considers what we do?


    By Blogger John Rush, at 12/08/2005 11:01 AM  

  • KC. It is really possibel for behavior to not be consistent with belief? What I mean: There is academic theology... what we study, what we say we beleive. Then there is practical theology... what we actually do.

    The old illustration: I can say that I beleive that the chari will hold me, but there is no way that i am actually going to sit in it! Do I really believe? Faith is a set of a beliefs that drives us to actions. Belief drives us to action. What presents itself on the stage of our life is determined by the script in our hearts.

    I know, I have spent many years saying I believe in the need for community in the body of Christ and yet trying to live as an island. Did I really believe what I was teaching? I'd like to think I did, but it didn't effect my choices.

    Back to Rose's original question... Can you separate the inside from the outside... no! Man looks on the outward appearance, which can be deceptive and skewed, God looks at the heart. However, the NT also teaches that we will be known by our fruits. So both heart's desire and life application is considered in how Gos sees us.

    By Blogger Reformer, at 12/08/2005 11:02 AM  

  • Joe,
    I had no idea it would turn out like that. I figured those who disagreed with me would just ignore me. Some of them did, others made the "dialogue" quite interesting and I really learned a lot!

    I will find out about the service schedule and email you.

    also ... I don't know any churches that "yopu" would recommend.

    (hey, I can joke around too!)

    By Blogger Rose~, at 12/08/2005 11:06 AM  

  • Well, obviously his behaviour is a front, put on for reasons he felt were justified morally. That woudl certainly make his 'underneath' significant in a moral sense.

    I used to be a huge fan of Batman, until I destroyed all my comics in a fit of religious fervour a couple of years ago. My life was in a mess at the time (I was unemployed at the time and in a really bad engagement to an unsuitable person). I thought if I was really devout and got rid of anything I had with the slightest Occult connection, God would solve my problems. Fortunately, God chastises us for our own good and I needed the problems I was having to make me re-think my life.

    Every Blessing in Christ


    By Blogger Dyspraxic Fundamentalist, at 12/08/2005 11:39 AM  

  • Hi Rose
    What other super horeos do you like?


    By Blogger forgiven, at 12/08/2005 12:15 PM  

  • forgiven,
    I'm so glad you asked! My very favorite super-hero is my son, Elliot. He calls himself "Super-Elliot" and he really believes he is a secret super-hero.

    By Blogger Rose~, at 12/08/2005 12:18 PM  

  • Matthew,
    I must tell you, I laughed out loud when I read "in a fit of religious fervor ..." I have had those fits before too. Blessings.

    By Blogger Rose~, at 12/08/2005 12:28 PM  

  • Thanks,you do know Yopu though, right?

    By Blogger Jeremy Weaver, at 12/08/2005 12:34 PM  

  • Hi Rose,

    I hoped to expound on my comment in light of the thoughts Reformer put forth. I agree with Reformer 100% that we act on what we believe but I don’t think that necessarily results in consistent behavior. Those who believe in their heart that a lie is true exhibit behavior that is contradictory to their belief. This is the consequence of believing a lie. The Pharisees were a prime example. They believed in their heart they were righteous yet their behavior was contradictory. The Apostles also believed they were righteous and their behavior was consistent. Both believed the same, yet both were not consistent. One believed himself righteous by virtue of himself and one by virtue of Christ. The Pharisees were unable to reconcile their thoughts with their beliefs when Jesus questioned them concerning the truth. The pride in their heart told them they were righteous but their mind was on destruction. The Apostles, on the other hand, were eventually able to reconcile these things because their heart and mind were in unison.

    I suspect this is also what the scripture refers to in Romans 2:

    “14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
    15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) “

    By Blogger Kc, at 12/08/2005 2:10 PM  

  • Reformer,

    Your statements are such a blessing

    By Blogger Shawn L, at 12/08/2005 3:50 PM  

  • Hi Reformer!
    I didn't even see your comment there until I got home. Glad to see you stop by ... now that all the TULIP discussion is over! Your friend John Babri took up your case a couple of times. You should check out the post below this one if you have some time, some of John Babri's finest words are contained therein.

    You turned into an elk?
    That is an interesting take on the quote. Thanks for your two polished pennies!

    I knew that was a provacative quote when I heard it last summer. It startled me because at first I thought it was so wrong. Then I pondered it during the rest of the movie and thought maybe there was some truth to it, thinking of some of the verses that have been quoted here. After thinking about it some more, I thought no, it wasn't true, again, and on and on ... I just wondered what others would make of it.

    By Blogger Rose~, at 12/08/2005 6:21 PM  

  • Reformer,

    God is doing a deep work in you.


    WAS THE COMMENT IN THE MOVIE? What movie did you watch? You better watch it again for I think you must have only paid attention to Kate and thought the movie was about her:-) HELLLLLLOOOOOO!

    By Blogger Bhedr, at 12/08/2005 8:16 PM  

  • The comment was the movie. A good inspiration for both Reformer and myself who smelled their own failures and finally wished to act on what they believe. God has to hurt us so that we truly bring glory back to him as one of his chosen vessels. Watch Batman Begins..Again. Intresting that Bruce Waynes fathers enemy formed him into what His father wanted him to be while thinking he was resisting the will of his father. Selah.

    Ahhh the allegorical possibilities! Amen Shawn?

    By Blogger Bhedr, at 12/08/2005 8:22 PM  

  • OK, Bhedr,
    I humbly bow to your supremecy in all things Batman. I saw the movie last summer and had forgotten about the conversation betwixt Bruce and his father. I must watch the film again.

    Is that the same time when his father made the revelation, while wearing that big black mask and cape,

    *heavy sigh*
    "I'm your father, Bruce..."
    *heavy sigh*

    or am I getting my movies mixed up?


    By Blogger Rose~, at 12/08/2005 8:53 PM  

  • Brian,

    Amen, I like that movie as well, but never thought of that. Wow good thinking.

    Reminds me of the reverse side of Judas.

    Even the plans of the wicked are overruled for good by God's counsel (Acts 2:23; Acts 4:27-28)

    By Blogger Shawn L, at 12/08/2005 9:10 PM  

  • Rose,

    If Bruce Wayne can turn into a bat, surely I am allowed to turn into an elk. It does make for difficult flying, of course. But the bad guys really hate the antlers. The whole outfit just really throws them off.


    By Blogger John Rush, at 12/09/2005 9:43 AM  

  • JRush,

    "The Ten-Pointed Bugler"
    All the criminals will cower and hide when they hear you coming.

    By Blogger Rose~, at 12/09/2005 11:50 AM  

  • Oh yeah,

    The bugling is very intimidating.


    By Blogger John Rush, at 12/09/2005 12:13 PM  

  • Rose my finger is tired trying to move down your blog..... I'm sooooo tired.. Just kidding

    Does anyone know about ways to just show a partial view of the blog and have a button that says "READ MORE" for people who don't want to read the whole thing again.

    By Blogger Shawn L, at 12/09/2005 5:34 PM  

  • Both matter... and for different reasons.

    Inside: regeneration by grace through faith
    Outside: justification by works (we will get to this in James 2:14ff series on my blog)

    Man looks on the outside, but God looks (clap, clap) on the heart.


    By Blogger Antonio, at 12/09/2005 10:04 PM  

  • The whole reason I brought this up right now was because of the POTS discussion previously and the Lordship Salvation turn that it took.

    By Blogger Rose~, at 12/09/2005 10:18 PM  

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